Written by | Posted October 24, 2014 – 12:01 pm Elevation

Squire Benjamin William Sullivan stood in the middle of Light’s Hope Chapel in his underpants.

Actually, it was white linen pants and a shift, but the effect was approximately the same. The little chapel was warm, on the edge of …

filed under Raiding
Kids and Raids
comment 21 Written by on June 11, 2008 – 9:39 am

It’s quite common these days to hear about raids that are explicitly 18+ (and about high school students lying about their age to get into said raids, but that’s another post altogether). Generally this is done to allow for mature raid chat and to avoid the last-minute, stereotypical “my mom says I have to go to bed /hearth /log” or “sorry guys I want to go to the football game” kinds of problems.

And to be honest, those are valid concerns for a progressing raid. Not all high school students are able to commit to a regular raiding schedule, especially one that happens on weeknights. Again, though, that’s a topic for another post – each raid will have to work these things out on their own.

gnome1But what about kids that are even younger?

Say… 8 or 9 or 10?

Kids provide a very interesting set of situations to the raiding group. They are, at once, both extremely fun to have in a raid and a potentially explosive situation (especially if the child is raiding without the knowledge of a parent/guardian).

Two anecdotes from the Anna Archives:

Back in the old days when I was raiding Molten Core, our raid group included a gnome rogue who was 9 years old. He did not have ventrilo, he had a set schedule (as set by his dad, who was also in the raid), and he was a blast to have around. There’s nothing like a 9 year old to be SO EXCITED to be hanging out with the big kids and raiding – it does a lot for raid morale, especially on rough wipes. Now, this little guy is pretty quick on the uptake, listens to directions, and when he had trouble understanding something, he asked his dad. (Note – he played a rogue, a class which – in Molten Core at least – had few responsibilities other than “Stab it until its dead”)

Things that made this situation work: He was playing with someone that he could ask questions of when he didn’t understand. He was not in ventrilo (so there was no danger of someone letting a string of 4 letter words come crashing down on his 9 year old ears), but his dad was, so he always got the instructions. And the entire raid knew that he was young, and was willing to work with that. gnome2

As a member of the guild, he was enthusiastic, occasionally might ask for help with something, and had a penchant for farming unrivalled by any other player I’ve ever met to this day.

All in all, it worked out great.

Now to a more recent episode. There is another young player in my husband’s guild. Another gnome rogue, ironically, but not the same one that we raided MC with. He is around 11 years old.

This guy has all the same enthusiasm as our previously discussed gnome, but without any sort of tempering. He gets to go to some of their guild Karazhan and Gruul’s lair runs, but for the most part people don’t enjoy having him around. He constantly badgers people in guild chat for various things (including but not limited to money, reagents, and run-throughs) and if he doesn’t get what he wants, resorts to whispering guild members. Because of his attitude, he is not generally someone that a raid likes to see get an invite.

His current project is my husband and another member of TRI. Every time my husband logs into his raiding main, he gets a barrage of whispers – “is there room for me? can you talk to your raid leader? do you need any subs? can I go with your raid to SSC?” – even if the he is currently in another raid. Right now my husband is approaching the point of putting the kid on /ignore (or siccing one of the.. less diplomatic/tactful/friendly TRI raid leaders on the kid). Recently, we discovered that he’s doing the same thing to another TRI raider that is a member of that guild.

+++++++++

So – what’s the overall message here? I think, among other things, that it depends entirely on the kid and the raid, much like any other raider. I’ve met so-called adult players that were no better than the 11 year old – and they don’t get raid invites either. The fact that our MC rogue was playing alongside a parent helped tremendously, but even now when he raids by himself he has a good rapport with other players and is a lot of fun to have around. He also rarely gets grounded from the computer – something I’ve seen happen to other young players in guilds I’ve been in.

Would I go out of my way to recruit 9 year olds to raids? Certainly not. Having a child in the raid requires a bit more patience on everyone’s part, and not all raids are rated PG/PG13 and willing to take the extra time to explain something to a younger player (not likely with TRI). But having someone around who is absolutely thrilled to be there can transmit an infections enthusiasm and provide some lighthearted banter when the raid’s having a tough night – if the raid and the player are both a good fit for each other.  Because really – there’s nothing like getting your stuff in gear for yet another brutalizing wipe and having a gnome rogue go bouncing across the room yelling silly threats at the boss and asking “are we going to pull him yet?!”.

Just like with any other type of player, there are good kids and not so good kids. The decision lies with the raid leadership.

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21 Responses to “Kids and Raids”

  1. I think a very large portion of whether or not a child should be allowed in a guild, especially a raiding/progressive raiding guild, has to do with, specifically, that child. Child number 1 would have been, and was, great to raid with, while child number two is not so much.

    Thing about it is, this is the same with adults! That’s why there are guild applications and the such. Just as being an adult doesn’t guarantee maturity, being a child doesn’t guarantee a lack of it.

  2. great post Anna. Generally, our members are +18, but we do have a few younger members. One of our young members, plays with us with both her parents and often can be seen doing arenas, raids or heroics. Much like your MC kiddie, is a very mature for her age and take her over some of the asshats that have graced our guild. Like you said, it all depends on the kid and the guild.

  3. I know both of whom you’re talking about :) You’re absolutely right on both of them. I don’t generally have a problem with age either, but there’s a certain age where you just HAVE to have a parent around or the kid gets too annoying by virtue of being a kid (and needing a parent or older friend to keep them in check). In my experience, most players I’ve seen under the age of 14 are usually needing some sort of buffer between them and older players to bridge that annoyance/understanding/patience gap.

    By Parsi on Jun 11, 2008 | Reply
  4. My previous guild was one in which wehad a few younger members, the youngest was 12 when I first joined – I had no idea until I heard him on TS, he was (and is) SO much more mature than a lot of the 18-19 year olds we had at the time!

    Now I’m in and 18+ guild, I do really enjoy the relaxed attitude there, I don’t need to worry about what I’m saying, I can swear if I want to, although I dont, but it’s nice to know I’m not gonna get rapped knuckles for doing so!

    I hope that our kids will like playing games with us when they’re older… hopefully they won’t be of the annoying kind, but as we’ll play WITH them they won’t get away with it as much!

  5. I think that’s a huge part of it Softi – parents playing with their kids – it helps both the kids and everyone they interact with, since there’s a “translator” around, so to speak.

    That, and it just seems like it’d be fun :D

    By Anna on Jun 11, 2008 | Reply
  6. Very insightful post, Anna!

    The idea of the father-son raid team is so endearing, I really enjoyed reading about that.

  7. His dad plays a feral druid, so they still go and stealth through instances and stuff together. It’s really sweet.

    By Anna on Jun 11, 2008 | Reply
  8. When I first started raiding on Feathermoon, it was with The Exiled in Molten Core. In that raid we had a father-son duo that played a paladin and a mage (I believe). They were pretty sporadic players and the type that we’d invite when we had slots and they were available, but it was always a lot of fun having around and the kid’s enthusiasm was absolutely inspiring and fun.

    My only complaint was that it was very hard to watch what you were saying when they were around. Throw a bunch of 18+ people into a late night activity weekly and sometimes the conversations you had were a little quirky. It was especially hard for me because I’d just gotten out of sailing and wasn’t at the Academy any more and I was still weening myself off of the more colorful aspects of my former lifestyle.

    Fortunately, the healers’ channel was our refuge! A bunch of volatile women and one guy in a channel and gabbing for hours on end? Much fun!

  9. “Right now my husband is approaching the point of putting the kid on /ignore (or siccing one of the.. less diplomatic/tactful/friendly TRI raid leaders on the kid).”

    Oh, PICK ME.

    >_>

    By Tarq on Jun 12, 2008 | Reply
  10. Really good post! This is a topic that comes up in our guild sometimes more often than I would like. ;)

    It’s worth noting that the irksome child in question does this to everyone he knows who is in a regular raid- not just TRI.

    By Lilivati on Jun 12, 2008 | Reply
  11. Pick Tarq after a Belph drinking/smoking session. Pleeeeeeeease?

  12. I think it all depends on the raid. Certainly, I would not want a child raiding with the Anvil. I definately would not want any child raiding without a parent’s knowledge.

    And this pestering child makes me glad I choose not to raid with the TRI this expansion.

  13. That child is not a part of TRI in any way (thank goodness!). He’s a member of my husband’s guild.

    There are no members in TRI’s 25 man raid under 18 right now (that I know of).

    By Anna on Jun 17, 2008 | Reply
  14. … I meant so I could avoid being child spammed.

  15. Oh! hehe – well, I don’t think he’d know who you are :) He doesnt’ bother me, and I used to be in that guild, so I think he just goes down the guild list.

    By Anna on Jun 17, 2008 | Reply
  16. Whew! Saved again.

  17. I also remember raiding with rogue-kid #1. His enthusiasm really was great. And you couldn’t help but smile at his delight whenever he got an upgrade. Still, I definitely prefer an 18+ raiding environment where you don’t need to worry about self-sensorship so much.

    Also,

    Tarquin: Fueled by the tears of children.

    By Dalbarr on Jun 19, 2008 | Reply

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