Written by | Posted September 8, 2015 – 9:51 pm Descent and Ascent

It didn’t take long to get from Thunder Bluff to the Echo Isles – Ankona took advantage of a wyvern so she could think and plan before getting to her destination. She had information to confirm with the spirits – was Gromnor dead? Was he really in the northern part of the Eastern Kingdoms, somewhere […]

filed under Feature, Roleplay
Two Peeves (Rant Warning)
comment 19 Written by on October 14, 2009 – 6:17 am

Peeve The First: It’s not a tip if you require someone to pay it.

That’s called a fee.

It’s especially not a tip if someone gives you their materials for an enchant and you refuse to do the enchant until they give you some amount of gold that you have determined.

A tip is something you give someone because you appreciate what they’ve done, because you find their service to be exemplary, because they went out of their way to find you, because you brought your own mats and want them to have a little reward for helping you, or because you want to chip in to a crafter who has cranked through leveling.

A tip is in the hands of the person who is paying, not in the hands of the person who is doing the work.

If someone asks, “What should I tip you for that enchant?” you’re free to make a suggestion. But “I don’t work until you give me a tip of Xgold” is a fee. Which is fine. You’re well within your rights to charge a fee for your services.

But you darn well better tell people in advance that you charge that fee.

Springing that fee on someone after they give you their materials – and then refusing to give them the materials back OR the enchant they wanted until they pay you your “tip” (FEE) is not only scummy and asshattish, it’s scamming people, and against the ToS.

Peeve The Second: Griefers Suck, and the Report system isn’t much better.

Ok, so griefers exist. And yeah, I’ve run into more this week than I have in the last month. In fact, I’ve run into griefers every night I’ve done roleplay since Sunday. But whatever, I’ll blame the phase of the moon or something.

(Wait, that doesn’t work… my calendar says the new moon is coming up. Meh.)

So far I’ve run into people who have: postured sexually – repeatedly, even after being told to stop, emoted inappropriately, spewed racist bullshit in /say, danced naked on the table with their pet out while spamming Piccolo’s of Dance Like An Idiot, got on their mounts and spammed the spacebar while standing on top of people (to create the /whinny or /roar noise constantly), spammed conversation with emotes and/or inappropriate chat, god-modded that their pet was eating people without allowing us to god-mod shooting holes in their pet for eating our friends, were otherwise idiots when a group of people all having a conversation didn’t bend to the whim of some asshat who walked up and tried to direct what was going on, got frustrated, and decided it was time to ruin the night of everyone else there.  Or better yet, a group of people who all rolled level 1 alts specifically to be jerks.

And so, after dealing with that, attempting to handle it in character (“Hey, you mind getting off the table? You might like it, but I don’t really like night elf boxers.”), attempting to handle it out of character – ((Hey do you mind not doing that?)), and attempting to leave and go somewhere else only to be followed… they got reported.

“We are experiencing a high volume of petitions.”

Three hours after the absurd asshattery started, my ticket was still “experiencing a high volume of petitions” and I went to bed.

What frustrates me is that there is absolutely nothing I can do. I want to RP with my friends. We are in a relatively out of the way place, and we are not bothering anyone. Why that invites someone (or a whole group of someones, in two cases so far this week) to show up or roll level 1 alts with obscene names and purposefully be jerks I don’t know.

But the /ignore function? Only works for chat.

It doesn’t remove the ass of the naked male night elves dancing on the table. It doesn’t remove their pet from my lap. It doesn’t stop their mount from going ROAR or WHINNY constantly for five minutes.  It doesn’t make them go away when they realize that nobody is paying any attention to them.

Ignoring griefers /does not help/.

And guess what! Then they follow you around. I almost wonder if having them on ignore didn’t make it worse.. Which means we can’t play the game the way we want to play it because we have a tagalong who has decided his entire purpose in life is to ruin everyone else’s fun.

And the GM? “We are experiencing a high volume of petitions.”

It’s no wonder RPers are so hard to find, and why they do so much RP in quiet, out of the way places with only people they already know.

This is a rant. It’s not meant to express any sort of solution. It’s not meant to think that I never go out of my comfort zone and only RP with my friends. It’s a rant, because I’m annoyed.


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19 Responses to “Two Peeves (Rant Warning)”

  1. One time somebody in trade was advertising free cheap enchants, “Tips welcome but not required.”

    So I ran up with one of my lowbies and stuck my bracers or whatever in trade for the cheapy enchant. There was a pause for about 10 seconds and then the other person cancelled the trade. “Where’s the tip?”


    Fortunately for me, the last time I ran into a griefer, it was in a raid, and I was on my treedruid. Guess who didn’t get any heals? =D

  2. I wish we would apply rant number 1 to real life.

    It’s not a tip if I am required to pay it. If I am considered an asshat (and someone for whom it is a game to ruin their food) for not tipping at least 15% at a restaurant then I want that to be an up-front fee tacked on to my food cost. If my waitstaff gives exemplary service, I can then choose to tip/reward them for that.

    I’m not saying they don’t deserve the money, I’m saying that having restaurants pay them less and then relying on people tipping to make the difference results in aggravation on BOTH sides of the equation. If it’s a fee, call it a fee and charge it up front. If it’s a tip, it’s a way of saying “wow, you did a great job and made my meal even better because it was YOU serving me. Thank you.”

    As for #2, I put in a bid on that google wave invite from lifehacker, citing the need to be able to RP with multiple people at once as a vitally needed valid use. My intent was to offer one of my invites to you for that purpose, if you’re interested. Won’t help in-game griefing, but might allow an out-of-game place for y’all to play, yesno?

  3. May I suggest that you email a copy of your post to the wowgmfeedback-us@blizzard.com email address? (Email address taken from http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=21503 )

    By Jacob on Oct 14, 2009 | Reply
  4. @Tami – I did the same, and a few of my friends have now gotten invites (due to RNG luck, I think) and I know one of them has sent me one as well. So I’ll hopefully get to play there some. I am certainly looking forward to it as a way to do out of game stuff with less of the quirks of google docs.

  5. Regarding point #1: If I am required to pay it, it is a fee or a gratuity. That is not a tip.


    Regarding point #2: One time a bunch of us were RPing in Stormwind and a couple of dudes came by and decided to grief us. Mammoths parked on top of us, emote spamming, nasty emotes, and oh, that stupid orb that turns you into an explosive monkey.

    I /ignored and reported, since they were doing it to me specifically (I guess someone didn’t approve of night elf females), but like you said, /ignore doesn’t change the fact that this cluster of pixels, which can be huge, is up in your business, making it impossible to focus on the RP.

    Then there was that time just outside Stormwind, just past the gates, when the emote spam this guy gave us was so bad that it filled up my entire chat log in like 5 seconds. I think he had whatever the emote was on a macro for quick use. He got reported too.

    fffffffff. I hate griefers. >:|

  6. The US is yet again one of the few exceptions to a rule, where in other countries a tip is just something extra for services rendered exceptionally well, in the US it’s expected. When I went on my Study Abroad program in Argentina and we felt bad not leaving even a peso or two, our waiters were exceptionally happy that we left them anything! Then again they are also probably paid the national minimum, whereas wait staff in the US is paid waiter minimum wage, which is something like 30% of normal minimum wage. Even waiters are fancy upscale LA restaurants are paid this wage, but they get amazing tips as well. Tips aren’t tips any more in the US, they’re an extra tacked on fee. They’re still optional, but you’re looked upon poorly if you don’t tip. It may as well be a fee.

    I worked as pizza delivery, delivery is paid minimum wage, which is nice, and then a bare minimum fuel allowance is tacked on. I was thinking man, this is awesome, I’m getting upwards of 15 bucks an hour. Then something went wrong with my car. Not being a car person I had to take it into the shop, and all my accumulated tip money went into fixing my old clunker. So in the end, tips for pizzas are also more or less a required thing to pay for the wear and tear on the car of the person who’s delivering your pizza.

    By Aleros on Oct 14, 2009 | Reply
  7. In reagards to point #2, I have a feeling that that sort of behavior is what leads to the decline of RP on certain servers. I saw it happen on Moon Guard. The roleplayers flocked to that server because of the abundance of RP that was out in the open. Unfortunately this lead the griefers to flock there as well. I know that when the new RP server Wyrmrest Accord opened, my guild jumped at the chance to get away from all the griefers. I’ve noticed that we are still getting our fair share and they always seem to be growing.

    How long will it be before enough is enough and we want to jump servers again?

  8. Point 2 is one reason I can never get into RPing in WoW anymore. I play the game to have fun, not to fight a neverending war I cannot win (due to lack of dev support) against griefers. I’ve even been given some flack for “giving up,” but seriously, I go through enough in my real life, I don’t need this in my fun time.

    By Velicia on Oct 14, 2009 | Reply
  9. @Velicia – I can totally see that, especially with regards to public RP. But don’t let that stop you when it comes to forum, guild, or other “protected” RP. Finding others of like minds is incredibly rewarding 🙂

  10. As a result of several unpleasant #2 incidents, I finally decided about a year ago to stop using FlagRSP. I was sad to make this choice, for any number of reasons, but it seemed to be a red flag to a certain class of griefer.

    I do engage in random world RP, but I am a lot more circumspect about doing it than I used to be.

  11. I’m surprised how little I’ve been griefed for RPing. Then again the people I RP with usually chose locations that aren’t heavily populated. Which is just easier anyway. I was RPing in Dalaran once and no one was griefing us, but people kept running past just to do their business and it was really distracting.

    By Frijona on Oct 14, 2009 | Reply
  12. Reading Faeldray’s comment made my heart sink. I have transferred my main characters several times in search of a haven. My last attempts was Wyrmrest Accord. I don’t know if I have it in me to say to Blizzard that’s it’s okay that I pay you additional money on top of my subscription to go to another server in hopes that it’ll be different this time.

    I think in regards to griefing, there’s no way around it in the current version of WoW. While the game has given us a sandbox to tell stories, its wide open to the public so with capable storytellers you get not so good ones. You get people that just want an escape and others that are competitive/want to win. The low point is that it is just as open to those that have nothing better to do than take perverse pleasure in giving others a hard time.

    I can think of many ways to start down the road of trying to fix it but without consensus it’ll just be a merry-go-round. A few days of shine before lessons thought learned are too quickly forgotten.

    My main has been /lol, /spit, /confused to no end. Some of the times worse than others. I just let it roll and continue to walk on by. I had a player whisper me to tell me how my choice of class and race was not good. I just said, “Sorry.” and walked away. This is just what happens because I have a bigger red flag than just having FlagRSP or MyRolePlay up and running. It’s because I’m walking around a city rather than running at top speed on the mount of the month.

    Heaven forbid I find a group of people that desires to roleplay in game. Then it’s all the frustration times however many people wanted to tell a story. This is only made worse if the group that you find are really bad storytellers/god modders. Then you’re just in a lose/lose scenario.

    I’m sorry for the wall of text but this is a subject that really bugs me as well. Please excuse my own rant in this rant post.

  13. @Louis – The answer, at least for me, has been to create that sanctuary where I can. Granted, I was lucky in running across who I did when I did, but I’ve had several productive and enjoyable RP groups that haven’t been full of tons of people that were bad storytellers or god modders. To be honest, I don’t find that “in game RP” skill has a lot to do with storytelling. For me, in game RP is about communication and collaboration – not one story sitting down to tell a story and then another character telling a story.

    Those situations, in my experience, come from people who are more interested in showing off their backstory than in actual interaction with other characters.

    And, quite honestly, I’d rather deal with inexperienced, new RPers (and, because groups of other characters are good at this) guide them towards a more character-oriented RP than attention-grabbing or backstory-spewing RP than with griefers. New people are new – that doesn’t make them instantly bad. It’s the griefing that really gets to me.

  14. Excellent point, Anna. When I spoke of storytelling, I meant putting together an adventure that others can showcase their characters in, not everyone sit around the campfire while I spin this tale. But your point is still valid.

    I think my own checkered experience with group RP and the fact that I’m running on 2 hours of sleep meant that I have lost my self censor so where I would have not ranted before, I do now.

    I agree with you about wanting to deal with inexperienced RPers. It’s exciting to see imaginations run wild with possibilities. I hope my previous post didn’t come off as xenophobic. In the end, what’s important is having fun and I have no test that determines who’ll be fun and who won’t. Just hopes not to run into another Death Knight that tells my level 29 alt that he’s killed me instantly with a mighty swing of his uber-sword of uberness.

    But back to the point, the griefing really deflates my enthusiasm. Made all the worse by the fact that time is a luxury when dealing with people from all across the country and to have an opportunity hijacked by someone that had a bad day in school or work. The worse part, for me, of being griefed is that depending on how bad it was, it takes me time to wind down and get back to my character. A day, a week, sometimes longer. I have no way to evening the playing field as there is no real tools available to report anyone harassing me or anyone around me, as you have already pointed out.

    Those tend to lead to the thoughts of giving up, laying low and be satisfied with my own personal writing when I’d rather be surprised by the genius of someone else story.

    One last note and I’ll leave your comments alone. Google Wave could be an interesting tool or collaborating. I’ve been playing at it for a few days and can see the potential in setting up stories for a group if not outright writing as a group.

  15. I heartily share your Peeve the First. It’s the main reason why I try to avoid buying services from people I don’t know.

    I’m lucky in that I haven’t really experienced Peeve the Second, although that’s probably has more to do with the infrequency of my RPing than anything else.

  16. rant #1 – Totally agree in-game-wise. And I hope this rant didn’t get started by someone trying to scam you 🙁

    rant #2 – One small fix me and Shaurria have discovered is to go inside an instance. It is a poor fix, and situational, but that is one way of guaranteeing that no one can disturb you.

    By Kelesaria on Oct 15, 2009 | Reply
  17. I haven’t encountered pet peeve #1 much, but I agree with you there.

    Pet peeve #2, I definitely have run into. You are right, it is one thing to /ignore so the chat doesn’t show, but they are still there… climbing on top of your seated character so they can move obscenely, rude remarks, rude requests – and for what? I kinda see griefers as equivalent to gankers/campers of lowbie characters. I mean, do you really have nothing better to do than bother others? (I was primarily on an RP-PvP server for at least a year, so I got it all around -.-)

    For awhile, many of us figured keeping RP conversations in guild chat or party chat helped… but when a griefers see 2 or more characters hanging out and aren’t publicly saying or emoting anything, they assume it’s some mass orgy or something. Grrr.

  18. The most discouraging thing about rant #2 is that there are no protections anymore. GMs are always experiencing a high volume of petitions. It can take a day or more for them to get back to you. By then, your gaming experience has been ruined for the day. How many people have just given up? I know I am playing less b/c there is no such thing as an RP server in this game anymore. It is discouraging and I am afraid that one day this game that once game me so much pleasure is going to be just too annoying to play. We all play to have fun. RPers don’t need to be griefed especially as WoW has promised us an RP experience through separate servers, anti-griefing rules and stricter naming conventions.

    By Ezzraeyn on Oct 16, 2009 | Reply
  19. Re #2: Aww that just sucks Anna :/ I wish there was something productive that could be done about asshats like that. I know I’ve certainly wished I could PVP at will against my own faction on many an occasion >.>

    I keep meaning to come and lurk in the Pig & Whistle on my super sekret alt but work and my stupid time zone keeps getting in the way :/

    Oh and re #1 if you are looking for an enchant/gem etc look me up, the Badgers have many nice people with leveled professions so I’m sure we could sort you out no tip required!

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