Written by | Posted September 8, 2015 – 9:51 pm Descent and Ascent

It didn’t take long to get from Thunder Bluff to the Echo Isles – Ankona took advantage of a wyvern so she could think and plan before getting to her destination. She had information to confirm with the spirits – was Gromnor dead? Was he really in the northern part of the Eastern Kingdoms, somewhere […]

filed under Feature, General
comment 13 Written by on January 9, 2013 – 6:33 pm

I no longer enjoy WoW’s endgame content.

I like raiding, and the raids in Pandaria so far have been interesting. But I am no longer all that interested in the rest of the endgame.

This is OK, because Pandaria is, in a lot of ways, a totally different endgame than has existed before in WoW. It’s been hinting that direction since Wrath, but there’s a new paradigm in place. And I don’t really like it.

I like being able to be done with a character. I like being able to do my farming for mats, do a heroic or two for valor points, and be ready to raid each week. Now, if I want gear that doesn’t drop from a raid, I don’t need valor points, I need valor points and rep. A lot of rep. With one of a great variety of factions.

If I want to do all of my dailies, it takes me 2 hours. I have just about 2 hours of time most nights to do things that aren’t work or housework.

If I were to do all my dailies, I would do nothing, every day, but what I need to get done IRL, and dailies.

World of Dailycraft just isn’t going to be my game if I want to read books, play alts, have hobbies, write blog posts, roleplay, write fic, do pet battles, or do anything else. I like doing all of those things. I don’t like doing the same quests every day. It’s not fun. Give me a tabard, let me run my heroic dungeon for rep, and let me go on to something fun.

I just don’t like dailies. I’ve not liked dailies since I finished my Crusader title. And THAT was optional!

The game has become very high maintenance. I am lucky my raid is casual enough to not care that I haven’t maxed out all my reps so that I have replaced all my heroic gear, because the other option, I’m afraid, is don’t raid. I will not give my life to a video game, and that’s unfortunately what WoW is about right now. As well, it’s expected that I’ll run LFR every week too, since I need those gear upgrades. That’s five hours (at least) of time on top of having enough materials or gold for flasks and food. (LFR, at least, is done with friends, so it’s less of a chore.)

Now, don’t get me wrong, a lot of people love it. There are people who are thrilled that there is just SO MUCH TO DO.

I fell in love with, and have played since 2005, a very different game. I’m pretty good at making my own fun, via RP, and I like not feeling like the game is my job. I like finishing a character, being raid ready, moving on to other characters. I’d really hoped to have my hunter at max level, but if this is what I have to look forward to, I’m not sure I care. I can’t be arsed to do 2 hours of dailies on one character, let alone try to juggle two.

If this is the new paradigm of WoW, I’m afraid it’s probably the beginning of the end for me. Especially as more and more of my friends find other games and other things to do. For now, I’m playing alts, leaving my one endgame character to raid when I can. Maybe that’s where I’ll find my fun, not in doing cool things with my friends at 90, but in leveling up different types of characters. I figure if I don’t like something, I’m not going to force myself to do it.

That, unfortunately, means I’m missing out on a lot of lore. Which is why it’s probably the beginning of the end. If lore is now going to be gated behind weeks of repeated quests, I’m just going to read it off a website. Which makes me sad. I like being part of lore content, having my characters be part of what’s going on. Casual raiding, dungeons, and quests have previously been enough to get that, but Pandaria is different.

The game is changing, and my tastes aren’t changing with it.


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13 Responses to “Realization”

  1. I will tell you the same thing I told Lore, or any one else.

    If you are not enjoying it, don’t do it. On everyone but Dorri, I picked one group of reps to do dailies with. At most 1/2 hours work on the days I felt like doing them.

    And, maybe run an LFR with the loonies for drops if you feel like it. Let’s be honest, the raids do not require better gear, the gear helps if you aren’t tops, but they can be completed without them.

    My frustration over the years has been that I always wanted to do stuff in game aside form just RP and I was usually leveling alts because no one wanted to do anything.

    Right now, I might even have a group of people wanting to do challenge modes! And I still get RP.

    Yes, there is a lot to do! But you don’t have to do it all. And that is what makes it nifty for me. I can choose what to do and what not to do. Instead of leveling yet another alt. Cataclysm was nearly the nail in the coffin for me. I had 11 85s because there was nothing else to do.

  2. @Itanya – That’s pretty much been my decision. I’m going to do what I find fun, and when I run out of that, I’ll go do something else.

  3. Totally in agreement on the dailies. I don’t mind doing them if it’s my choice, but the obligation in the current batch to do them to get raid gear has just poisoned my feelings towards them and I decided that I don’t care any more.

    Iā€™m pretty good at making my own fun…

    You hit the nail there. The devs no longer trusts the players to make their own fun, so we have this meticulously structured endgame. They held too closely to that mantra they were touting throughout the Mists development of “giving you lots to do to progress your character”. Which is a great concept, except that I think they misunderstood “progress your character” to mean “grinding Valor gear is the only way to progress your character”, and “lots to do” as “you have to do the same things for much longer”.

  4. I like raiding and thoroughly enjoyed the endgame of BC and Wrath, but between Wrath and Cata I lost the guildies I’d run with and I don’t enjoy random strangers swearing at me enough to test out the LFR (I’m a bit of a coward that way, really).

    With no one to play with and no one to try new raiding with, I was having trouble motivating myself for Cata already. The Lore is gated and lately I just can’t find any reason to even get to 90… why subject myself to endless dailies? That was never the fun part! I roll alts, I farm, I collect pets… but I start to wonder if WoW is worth it for the minigames.

    Never lose your guild! Enjoy everyone that you have!

    By Mitawa on Jan 9, 2013 | Reply
  5. I remember how endless the dailies felt when I first started them, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel. The only really tough part for me was the Golden Lotus to Shado-Pan dailies. But like others have said, just pick one rep to work on (based on what upgrade you might need) and don’t worry about the others.

    Klaxxi, Golden Lotus, and Shado-Pan are the only ones that really have impacted me. August Celestials, Anglers, Cloud Serpent, Tillers are all optional.

    The big thing for me was to get over the humps to queue for LFR. After I could do that, most of my upgrades came from there.

    The Dominance Offensive dailies are actually pretty fun. They don’t take more than a half hour or so to do and you get a lore quest about every three days. The lore in these has been absolutely amazing. I wouldn’t want to spoil it for you, but wow.

    You can still finish a toon. I’m there with my Tank, though I’m still working on his Ret gear. I actually enjoy how the optional dailies give me a reason to keep playing him. In past expansions, I would get ‘done’ with him and not really have a reason to play him outside of raid nights. I really enjoy the MoP take on my class and I enjoy playing him, even on nights we don’t raid.

    Hope you found that helpful.

  6. I know people mean well, and I’m
    Occasionally able to force myself to do the Dominance Offensive dailies because people keep telling me there’s lore (I’m still waiting for it, so far I dressed up like a grummle and stole someone’s diary). But it comes back to still NOT LIKING DAILIES. Not a few, not some, I don’t like them at all. (not with a fox, not in a box. I should filk that poem). I don’t mind if I only play my main a little bit outside of raids. I love alts! I can stomach one set every few days, but it’s unlikely that I’ll ever see all of the lore in Pandaria because I don’t like collecting the same 14 bear asses over and over and over again. šŸ™

  7. I do wish Blizzard had done a better job of conveying their vision of a world where you could pick and choose which paths to follow. By relying on the “we’ll just put so much stuff to do out there that people just have to realize that they shouldn’t do all of it”, we ended up with a system where a lot of people either drive themselves batty trying to do it all, or feel like they are somehow not playing properly if they don’t.

    Myself, after two expansions where I busted my hump to prepare for raiding only to find myself without a guild halfway through the first tier, I went the opposite direction. No raiding and no pressure to follow anyone else’s timetable has been a huge relief. I do dailies when I feel like it, and when I don’t I don’t. I do pet battles or level alts or run scenarios or just chat with people. Means I’ve only gotten a few reputations to revered and have yet to buy a single VP item, but I don’t care. Like you said, if you don’t like something, don’t force yourself to do it.

  8. There’s another problem with the new daily system, one that is most obvious from the Klaxxi rep grind: not only is lore locked behind Raids, it’s also locked behind the rep grinds. The Argent Tourney dailies were optional, you could do all the quests and get the Argent Crusade lore with barely touching the Touney dailies. With the Klaxxi you don’t even get closure of the zone without being forced to do dailies all the way up to exalted. Forget the whole rep-for-gear-for-raids, even alts who will never see the inside of any instance are forced to do the full rep grind. Errrm… no thanks.

    Blizzard has seen the problem, even if they may not agree with us on the reasons behind it. I’m sure the whole Grand Commendation system was created because so many alts are still parked in a city at L85. Before that system, my alts were placed solidly in the “don’t bother” category. Even now, only 2 alts have been promoted to the “let’s try” category. One of those is a Horde character still at 75 and only promoted because I want to see the story from the Horde point of view. Even with the Commendation system, some of the rep grinds are just insanely long because the dailies give a minimum of rep earned (looking at you Golden Lotus) or are locked behind rep based groups of dailies (again Golden Lotus) or even locked behind another rep grind (Shado-Pan). I play WoW for fun, not for another day job! ><

    By Tsani on Jan 11, 2013 | Reply
  9. Looks like my second part got eaten by the internet gremlins:
    So out of 11 characters: one is sure to do as much of the Pandaria Journey as I can get, one will do the same (without raids/instances) to get the other point of view, and one I just like playing a lot (but again no instances). On the other side of the list is one who has moved into the “can be retired” zone, three are in the “park away as merchant alt”, and the rest is floating in a limbo between merchant and maybe play when I have time after the rest are done. That’s not a good sign, back in Vanilla and BC all my characters were solidly in the “do all quests” zone, Wrath had them all happily exploring all over Northrend and many did a few rep grinds they wanted stuff from after they had seen it all (Tourney, Wyrmrest, Kalu’ak), Cata even had a few new ones joining the group because the rep grinds came after the final zone quests.
    Blizzard may be complaining about “tabards giving rep made everyone feel forced to do instances”, but back then the actual main game content was not locked behind that rep. Mists rep grinds are now important for everyone, not just the raiders and blue/purple gear hunters. Blizzard may have learned a lot from their mistakes, and Mists so far has very few new ones (for me), but that whole rep grind is a bigger showstopper/alt-killer than Uldum’s insane “you are now demoted to comic relief side kick” and ingame movies of walking 10 yards. ><

    By Tsani on Jan 11, 2013 | Reply
  10. I completely agree. I’ve never been a fan of dailies and was always a supporter of the tabard system. I keep burning my slowly-earned valor to upgrade gear since that’s the best a non-daily person can use it for.

    The other piece I think has hurt end game is the new LFR loot system. My guild can muster up 10 people for a regular raid maybe two nights a week if we’re lucky. When we can’t, we use LFR to build up our gear as a team. Now with the new loot system it is significantly more difficult and time consuming to build up your gear. The rate you get items is just slower even if you do grind all your dailies for the tokens. It slows down gear progression outside of regular raids which has slowed it down inside them for us.

    By Tieren on Jan 14, 2013 | Reply
  11. I decided not to care about dailies and the gear – I made a promise to myself I would only do it for fun. In the beginning I was doing Golden Lotus and Klaxxi and Cloud Serpents and it was so miserable I decided not to do Cloud serpents or Klaxxi and just do Golden Lotus. Even now, I have finished the Klaxxi but not yet done the quests afterwards for the epic ring because I couldn’t give a poop about loot, I will do it when I feel like doing it not because I SHOULD be doing it for the item.
    I have been focussing on the fun things which are a massive time waster but I enjoy it – and that is pet battles. My guildies who raid with me may tell me off because I’m doing dailies that don’t give you any rep or valour but at least I like doing them. And that’s what I want from my game.
    Bring back dungeon rep grinds imo. That at least made it less painful.
    But I see your point Anna. I wonder what you will be saying 2 months from now. I hope you’re still here.

  12. I’m in a similar place. I was worried that I wouldn’t find the expansion having staying power for me due to not having a raid team to be a part of. But I’m actually just as excited about logging in now as I was at expansion launch. Probably due to not having the pressure of spending my limited free playing time maximizing myself for raiding beyond LFR.

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